Heel Angle, How Much Is Too Much

[Woden]

Since I have never capsized my Day Sailor I have always been Interested in how far can you heel the boat untill you are past the point of no return. So...........I bought an inclinometer this spring. Before yesterday the most heel I would feel comfortable with was about 22 deg. But yesterday I went out in winds at 15 to 20mph. I fought the boat for over an hour before I reefed the main (first time I ever did that) and started to feel comfortable. This my second season sailing. After a couple of hours I shook out the reef and continued to sail. Yesterday I had 35 deg. of heel with me in the hiking straps. Did not stay there too long as I started loosing my nerve. You know if the gage is reading 90 deg. you are in trouble. Ha Ha!

Did any one else ever try to measure there heel or max heel before you go to 90deg.?

Pete

[Brave Dave]

Two weeks ago I was blow over to 45 degrees, full sails by a fantom gust, boat hung there for what seemed like 3 minutes (probably was less than a minute). The boat spun into the wind and all was well. I would want to test it much beyond 45 degrees. I was hanging over the rail looking at the keel, I think my 225 pounds of movable ballast saved me.

[Woden]

Dave,
Do you recall if the lee rail was in the water?

[Curry]

A couple of weeks ago, I put the rail of my '68 DS I under. Water came in pretty quickly. Shocked the hell out of my wife and daughter, but the boat handled it very well. Jumped right back up as soon as I headed her into the wind.

To be honest, I didn't even notice the water coming in, was too busy trying to release the jib sheet from the cam (the family was in the way). I found out about the rail-under from my wife and the several inches of water in the boat

[Brave Dave]

Pete,

Yeah, the lee rail was in the water. I tried not to look too long, I was desperately trying to get my ballast (butt) over the windward rail. The lesson I learned was this: I don't have a tiller extension and trying to get your ballast over the windward rail and steer the boat at the same time in high winds is nearly impossible.

Dave

[PG]

I recently bought a 36" tiller extension for around $40 with shipping, and it has made all the difference. I can now comfortably sit on the rail far enough forward so that my feet rest on the centerboard trunk ... or "stand" on it when the boat is heeling enough. It also makes it easier to grab stuff out of the cuddy when I'm singlehanding. The tiller extension along with the $20 sailing gloves, which allow me to work the mainsheet continuously in gusty conditions without destroying my hands, have been the most cost-effective ways to get more out of the boat in high winds.

[shawn]

The Daysailer and most centerboard dinghy type boats sail best when they're sailed as close to their lines as possibly (sailing flat). It's virtually impossible to get them planing if they're not. That's why the tiller extension and hiking straps are so important, so you can get your weight as far out as possible to keep the boat flat. YouTube has some great videos of 420's planing, those boats even use harnesses to get your whole body out of the boat and on the rail, all in an effort to keep them as upright as possible.

Shawn
DS II 10542

[Woden]

I do try to sail as flat as possable. Pushing 60yrs and am in the hiking straps hanging man. But when the wind gets high and its just me (170lbs) your going up. None the less running a good heel is fun. And for me fun is where it is at.

[whitejw1967]

I've had my '74 DSII to 50 degrees sailing solo and with a partner. Of course, water pours in over the leeward gunwale at such angles. Interestingly, my boat generally won't go farther over; even fighting the helm she turns into the wind and settles. Is this the same experience others have had? An unexpected sudden gust would of course push her farther.

As a new sailor, I was terrified of capsizing. A few experiences like those above really gave me a lot more confidence in what the boat will do. I simply pushed her to her and my limits. Of course this was in 12-18 knots in SC summer weather (going over, though a pain, wouldn't be quite so bad in 88 degree water).

[ChrisB]

I have an '80 DS II and I have found that the rudder stalls and the boat begins to round up before I have hit 45 or 50 degrees of heel and before the lake starts coming over the leeward gunwale (unless I'm caught by a sudden gust). I sail solo and sit almost abeam of the jib cars. I'm too old and too fat to want to use hiking straps, but I do use a hiking stick on the tiller so I can sit on the rail. I wear gloves and keep the mainsheet in my hand at all times (the minute you let go of the mainsheet, Poseidon will send a 25mph gust your way!). Knock on wood, in 18 years, I never capsized. I've probably jinxed it now.

[itsermam]

I do not know the angle, but I have had the lee rail under water on a number of occasions - very exciting, but not the most efficient way to sail. By most accounts the boat is fastest when sailed flat, or with just a touch of heel.

I have yet to capsize, though my experience has been that easing the sails (if you can) is better than heading up as the aft end has little freeboard and tends to dig in and take on some extra water when rounding up with that much heel. Of course, that could speak more to my heavy hand on the tiller when she goes vertical than it does to any characteristic of the boat. Tiller extension is definitely a plus if you plan on testing the limits of heel.

[whitejw1967]

Chris and DSI:

My experiences are the same. I think my DS II rounds up into the wind in large part because the rudder loses lift at high angles and vice versa. The windward tendency of the boat makes me fight the rudder in a high wind which in turn causes the rudder to stall and act as a brake. With little rudder, the boat rounds windward.

When alone I sit directly in line with the mainsheet (mid-boom) and often hike out over the side (which is a lot easier now that I have a couple of hiking straps). When with a partner, I still tend to sit mid-cockpit in good winds as this facilitates getting the boat onto a plane. I also have a tiller extension that I use constantly and, like you guys, I keep the main in my hand at all times in heavy winds (I cleat it behind a mainsheet double fiddle but can quick release it). Maybe I'm paranoid, but I feel that I'm tempting fate when I am too far from the mainsheet.