Couple questions for my new to me DS1

[Shellback]

HI Guys,
Great site, I've been searching for answers but thought I'd just ask and see if anybody would be willing to throw out a quick reply.

I just bought a(ccording to the title) 1968 DS1, and here's what I've come up with so far:

1. Can the deck of the boat be removed for restoration? I found a Javelin restoration site that had a ton of info and that one showed the top coming off with a bit of work.
Actually I just doubled checked and it wasn't that site showing the deck being removed. Now I can't find it, should have book marked it!
2. Is there a full piece of wood in the transom on this year? It looks more like there's a small vertical wood section right in the middle.
3. Mine has a drain hole at the bottom middle of the transom. Is that from the factory?
That's about all I want to bother anyone with right now.

Thanks for any info.
Eric

[GreenLake]

Welcome to the forum.

1. Can the deck of the boat be removed for restoration? I found a Javelin restoration site that had a ton of info and that one showed the top coming off with a bit of work.
Actually I just doubled checked and it wasn't that site showing the deck being removed. Now I can't find it, should have book marked it!

This seems rather radical. Unless it's motivated by some specific issue, I would try something less radical.

2. Is there a full piece of wood in the transom on this year? It looks more like there's a small vertical wood section right in the middle.

That seems the case on my '63 (which is titled as a '71, just so you know!)

3. Mine has a drain hole at the bottom middle of the transom. Is that from the factory?

I would assume so, mine has the same. Mine has an odd diameter which makes it tricky to get plugs for it.

[Shellback]

Thanks for the info Greenlake!

My biggest concern is around the centerboard and where it protrudes into the cockpit. It seems to be cracked around the bottom of that area and not too structurally sound, kind of wobbly. There's also some separation between the deck and hull around the rear edge where the cuddy begins. Here are a few pictures. Any suggestions or info on the boat would be appreciated!




In the next 2 pictures, is the raised channel that runs from the centerboard to the forward bulkhead hollow? It appears to be open on the forward end. If so, where does any water that collects in that area drain?




Thanks again

[willyhays]

The deck can be removed, but I agree with Greenlake: that seems like an unnecessarily radical approach. It may cause more headache than it is worth. On the other hand, if you are experienced and skilled in fiberglass boat repair, it is certainly doable, though still not necessarily worthwhile. In my opinion, the only reason to remove the deck is if it is necessary in order to restore structural integrity to the boat or if your goal is to produce a pristine show boat, in which case removing the deck as part of an absolutely thorough restoration might make sense.

Your boat had a wooden thwart connecting the top of the centerboard trunk to the seats on both sides of the boat; the mounting cleats for this thwart are still in place, but the thwart itself is missing. If you install a thwart it will stiffen up the centerboard trunk.

If there are structural cracks along the base of the centerboard trunk you can remedy this by repairing the cracks and reinforcing the area with glass tape set in either epoxy or polyester resin.

[GreenLake]

Your boat had a wooden thwart connecting the top of the centerboard trunk to the seats on both sides of the boat; the mounting cleats for this thwart are still in place, but the thwart itself is missing. If you install a thwart it will stiffen up the centerboard trunk.

You should look in the gallery (click the link next to the picture of a little "eye" up near the top right corner of each page). You will find pictures of these thwarts. They are structurally really needed. Some prev. owner may have thought that the "buttress" style supports might be sufficient. The cracks argue otherwise.

If there are structural cracks along the base of the centerboard trunk you can remedy this by repairing the cracks and reinforcing the area with glass tape set in either epoxy or polyester resin.

Btw, let's hear from you how well versed you are in fiberglass repairs. We rather don't give you the noob lecture if all you need is the info specific to the boat. But if you need it, we'll talk you through.

[K.C. Walker]

+1 for what willyhays and Greenlake said.

When I did the rehab on my DS1 I had plenty of cracks around the centerboard trunk/hull joint. I did grind them out and fill them with the epoxy and fiberglass tape. The thwart is definitely necessary.

[GreenLake]

It looks like the images are no longer accessible. Can you make sure the links in your original post are still live?

[Shellback]

Thanks for letting me know about the images. I moved them on photobucket into a different folder.

I added another question on the picture post as well, about the center channel that runs from the forward bulkhead back to the centerboard area. Is it hollow? It looks open and it if is, where does any water that collects there drain?

Thanks again!

[GreenLake]

My DS seems to have a small opening on that channel near the CB where water could drain, but I don't know in fact whether it's actually hollow or filled. I've just assumed it was open. There's no reason other than convenience in lay-up to enclose wood. Assuming a reasonable layup schedule a hollow tube like that should be quite strong.

[curifin]

If you are reinforcing, I have been really impressed with the simplicity and strength of what my 70 DS has - basically marine plywood braces between the seats and the centerboard trunk, underneath the thwarts.

Let me see, here are some pics....





Basically, the net result is creating a compression plane between the seats, hull, and centerboard. I like it pretty good. They are glassed in under the tabs for the thwarts.



I also ground out and filleted a wide radius joint at the join between the hull at the centerboard trunk. It seems stronger, but is also WAY easier to keep clean after a dirty day of gunkholing.

[Shellback]

Thanks for the info. I can't see the pictures though. Might be the network I'm on, I'll check when I get home.

Speaking of reinforcements, does anyone know if the areas that my "arrows" are pointing to have wood reinforcements underneath the fiberglass? I haven't really dug into it to see. Mine seems pretty flexible around those areas.

Prepare to be amazed at my photo editing skills:



Huh, huh? Pretty nice! haha

[Rummel]

The areas to have your arrows pointing to are where the mahogany coamings go.
Looks like yours are missing.

[Shellback]

Right, I have removed them. I was wondering about what's behind the fiberglass, is there a wood backing? The screws that were holding my boards in place didn't appear to be be bedded in anything substantial, and I'm thinking if something was there it's probably rotted away.
Thanks

[Rummel]

They also cover the area in your first picture.
Mine had the same affliction as yours in that area.
There is a steel rod embedded in the glass there. Over time it rusted and caused the polyester to crack and break down.
I cleaned out and ground the glass down around it as best I could and filled the gap with epoxy thickened with colloidal silica. Then faired with micro balloons.

Mine is an older model that is built a little different but yeah there should be wood back there.
I over drilled all my holes for coamings and filled them with colloidal silica and will re drill to install my new coamings

[GreenLake]

Right, I have removed them. I was wondering about what's behind the fiberglass, is there a wood backing? The screws that were holding my boards in place didn't appear to be be bedded in anything substantial, and I'm thinking if something was there it's probably rotted away.

The technical term for the wood there is "carlin" (a good term if you want to search older posts).

The wood apparently is not treated and not really enclosed, which makes it subject to dry rot.

Depending on the severity your options include total removal and replacement, or you might get away with using a product like System Three's RotFix. It's a very thin epoxy that you can apply via syringe to all the screw holes (and if you feel like it, you can drill a few small holes in additional locations). It soaks into the wood and if it's not too far gone, will reinforce what's there. Once it's cured, you can inject thickened epoxy into the holes just prior to reinserting the screws (after waxing them). That will allow the epoxy to fill all gaps and in fact create "threads" while leaving the waxed screws removable.

Removal appears a manageable project, because the wood isn't fully encased (there's just a bit of fiberglass cloth draped over it on mine). I would recommend that you coat any replacement with epoxy on all 6 sides and that you do not bother with laminate (You will want to seal all screw holes as above with the thickened epoxy). The tricky part is that these are not in a straight line and you may need to work at to get your new wood to follow the curves.

Haven't done either repair myself - while some spots show signs of rot, they haven't progressed to structural, as my screws generally still hold, so I've put that repair off for the long term. I did have to upsize them in a few places.