Yet another DS n00b.

[lbdavis]

Hi Gang,

I'm in the market for a DS. I think I'm leaning towards a DSI because of the extra room (I'm 6'2"/200), the better access (maintenance), and the lever operated CB, but I'd be happy with a DSII if that's what I found near by(Southern, ME).

I've been lurking around here for a couple of weeks reading up on all things DaySailer and collecting as much intel as I can to arm myself for the upcomming boat shopping.

I understand that hull, trailer, sails, and rigging (standing and running) comprise most of the value in a purchase, but I'm trying to figure out what else is most important to look for in these aged plastic wonders and learn how to spot these issues early in the process.

For instance:
- Can I tell if a CB has issues without raising and lowering?
- Are compresion posts a source of problems on the deck stepped DS's?
- Is there any coring in the deck?
- Did I read in here that the transom is cored? Balsa? Ply?
- Are there any places where the hull tends to get soft or deflect (I won't be pulling my kids on skis w/ a 25hp )?
- What else should I be on the lookout for????

I will be surveying this on my own so any advice outside of my questions is welcome.

I'm not afraid of tackling some projects, I just want to buy in at the right price point.

Thanks in advance for you help! This group and the support it offers is one of the appealing things that brought me to the idea of the DS!

Cheers!

[algonquin]

Greetings from Northern Maine - Glad you are looking for a DS labeled boat. In general most old DS1s tend to be in sailable condition with mostly cosmetic issues that can be addressed with some time and paint.

The hulls on the DS1s tend to be thin and will flex some. Expect to see some spider cracking near stress areas and around places where hardware is mounted. This is typical and usually doesn’t impact sailing the boat. Many owners often add some stiffening to the hull. On the DS1 it is important to use floor boards of some sort to distribute your weight on the hull when moving about.

Usually you don’t see a deck stepped mast with a compression post on these boats. What is typical is the installation of a tabernacle(hinge) above the deck When the mast is raised it sits on the lower section of the mast. A compression post usually supports the deck/cuddy roof just below the mast step but again this isn’t typical but I have seen some modified DS boats using this setup.

When inspecting a boat check the standing rigging for wear and fraying. Especially where it connects to the deck and mast.

I am not sure of how much coring is used but I suspect very little. There are some variances in the DS line due to different manufactures that built them over their long history.

Don’t let a DS that needs some minor fiberglass work scare you away. It isn’t hard to learn to do and may save you some on the purchase price.

If you plan on racing your DS in a fleet I would look for one that isn’t heavily modified. I know in my case I set my DS up for cruising and I have made some mods to it that would be illegal on the race circuit. But thinking about it it wouldn’t be hard to convert it back to race legal.

As far as the CB there isn’t a good way to check it with out raising the boat above the trailer or putting the boat in the water.

You did mention the sails. Hopefully you find a boat that has sails in serviceable condition. If not they are available used and new at reasonable prices.



The BBQ is calling Brad

[lbdavis]

Thanks for the info, Brad.

It's funny that you mention "DS labeld boat" as I've also been eying a (gasp) Sailstar Explorer that is for sale nearby. Perhaps this is the wrong place to ask about these boats, but what are the major drawbacks to the SailStar v the DS?

I would guess that parts for certain things (like CB and rudder/tiller) might be harder to come by for the SailStar, but besides parts and the loss of you wonderful people as a resource , what's "wrong" with the SS Explorers?

Lance

[jdubes]

Here are a few things I've picked up. Pick up the teak floor boards and look at the seam between the bench and the hull. I've seen a few DS's where the bench has pulled away from the hull. Also look at the fiberglass around the center board handle. Look for cracks or that it's pulling away from the center board trunk. Grab the handle and give it a little tug towards the bench. Stick with a DSI and go with the non-cable based centerboard control.

[lbdavis]

Good to know, jdubes. I'll be sure to do these things.

I'm going to look at that SailStar tomorrow, so you all need to talk me off the ledge if this is a bad idea!

[Curry]

The SailStar Explorer was a knock-off of the Daysailer. Almost identical except for a couple small changes that the builder learned about while woking for O'day Corp. While I can't find the exact info on the legal case, as I recall he was in a position which allowed him to access private communications between Fox and O'Day. Fox made some changes to the Daysailer that were never added because the class was already developed, as a result the SailStar Explorer was an improved "Daysailer".

http://sailboatdata.com/viewrecord.asp?class_ID=5096

Here it is:
http://openjurist.org/310/f2d/623

In my opinion, I'd stick with a Daysailer unless the price was something that you can't pass-up.

Here is a listing in MA Craiglist:
O'Day Daysailer 17' - $1000 (Sharon, MA)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: 2010-05-31, 6:17PM EDT
Reply to: sale-n4tpr-1768572068@craigslist.org [Errors when replying to ads?]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Classic 1960's O'Day Daysailer I for sale, sailed competitively for years nationally and on Lake Massapoag. Ready to sail, but can use some attention.

• White hull, light blue top
• Racing main and jib (Doyle), good condition
• Spinnaker, white with blue band
• Original benches, refinished
• Flotation added
• Reinforced hull
• Replacement rudder
• Trailer included



Location: Sharon, MA
it's NOT ok to contact this poster with services or other commercial interests



PostingID: 1768572068

[lbdavis]

The SailStar Explorer was a knock-off of the Daysailer. Almost identical except for a couple small changes that the builder learned about while woking for O'day Corp. While I can't find the exact info on the legal case, as I recall he was in a position which allowed him to access private communications between Fox and O'Day. Fox made some changes to the Daysailer that were never added because the class was already developed, as a result the SailStar Explorer was an improved "Daysailer".

http://sailboatdata.com/viewrecord.asp?class_ID=5096

Here it is:
http://openjurist.org/310/f2d/623

In my opinion, I'd stick with a Daysailer unless the price was something that you can't pass-up.

I'd heard about that suit, but I hadn't seen it. Thanks for the link!

Interesting stuff in there. I'm curious though, if Talman Bigelow essentially improved on the design, why then should one avoid this boat vis-a-vis the DS? I know I'm new here and I'm really not trying to be jerky about this, I'm just curious.

Were they manufactured in a more "cost saving" environment than the DS's? Cheaper hardware, crappy lay-up, gel coat too thin or too thick, poor hull/deck joint, etc?

Perhaps parts are simply non existent, which would make it well worth avoiding!

[algonquin]

I’m not going to attempt to steer you in one way over the other.

Parts are available for the DS while the SailStar is a rarer bird (I mean boat).

When it comes to running rigging and hardware you can use DS stuff or almost any other manufactures equipment on the SailStar and vice versa. Base your decision on what works best for you. If you plan to race competitively the DS may be the better choice with more opportunities to fleet race. If sailing and cruising for fun I am sure either will be satisfying.

If you go with the SailStar you are still welcome on this forum. Brad

[Curry]

No, I agree. If your buying to boat for having fun and not racing and the SailStar is in good shape and at the right price, buy it.

I'd actually like to see how the floor is installed and if it sails any differently than the O'Day. Post some pictures to you profile.

Thanks,
Chris

[lbdavis]

I keep meaning to post this: I have no interest in racing, so staying "in class" is not important to me. We have a larger cruising boat that's going to sit next to the house for a few years until the youngin's get a little bigger. However, daddy needs his fix in the meantime!

I just got back from looking at the SailStar and I was pretty impressed.

The hull was sound and it did not appear as though the boat had ever been sailed hard. There were no signs of spider cracking or stress at any of the "chainplates" or any other tension point. The standing rigging was in great shape and the running rigging looked original but operational (there were a couple of updated blocks here and there).

The trailer was solid, though the wheels were pretty rusty.

Sails are an issue. There's a hole (mice) that's been taped in the main and when we layed them out both main and jib looked pretty baggy.

This guy had installed custom floors (glassed ply) that looked really nice, but did not allow access underneath - so I didn't get to see what was going on there.

The CB looked solid for the 6" of swing I could operate it (it's on the trailer).

If I move forward with the boat, the seller is OK with splashing it. I'd like to rig it, check the CB and lift those floor boards if we get to that point.

Cosmetically, it's beautiful.

He's asking $1700 but told me he's pretty flexible. I didn't haggle, but told him I had more to look at and wanted to price out sails.

I wish I had pictures to post.

[algonquin]

Sounds like the SailStar is in great shape. Considering the condition of the sails and the owner’s willingness to negotiate I would really go low on the initial offer. $800 or so for starters and see where that takes you. With sails to replace that should position you well in justifying a low offer.

Good Luck !! Brad

[lbdavis]

I've given the boat a second look and we splashed her as well. Everything was good (or price has been negotiated for) until we got her wet and I dropped the CB.

Having never sailed a DS I or a SailStar Explorer for that matter, I'm not sure how much lateral play there should be in the CB, but it seemed really sloppy. I could get the CB trunk to deflect by moving the boat laterally in the water and racking the CB. It was concerning to me.

How much play should there be? Any?

I realize the lever mechanism is likely a little different for these two boats, but how difficult is it to "rebuild" a CB mechanism on a DS?

[GreenLake]

I've lost you with respect to which boat you are now referring to.

On a DS1, the CB trunk should be supported by two thwarts that connect it to the seats on either side. Therefore, the whole trunk should not be able to move.

Some people have reported some flexing of the CB trunk walls. If you were referring to the DS1, then the remedy for that has been to reinforce the CB walls by adding some foam and glass in strategic areas. You'd work from the top, so access is easy.

Some people have rebuilt/reinforced the place where the CB pin connects on the side opposite from the handle. For all these things, just search this forum for lots of discussion and details.

Note, even if there's some play when the boat is not moving, once you get going, the water pressure would force the CB to one end or the other. Unless the initial play is very big, what you are concerned with is whether the whole arrangement flexes further under load. At least that's my understanding.

[lbdavis]

Sorry for the confusion, green lake. It's the SailStar I'm still looking at.

I've looked though a lot of posts today and learned a lot about what could be wrong and what can be done to fix. It seems like most fixes could be tackled in a weekend - provided there isn't a great deal of fabrication that needs to be outsourced to someone. Am I a crackhead for thinking this?

I like the idea of through-bolting the whole enchilada and "shiming" the CB inside the trunk. Seems like that's a pretty solid fix.

Of course, I won't know what I'm dealing with until I take it all apart...

At this point, I'm still contemplating making another offer to account for potential CB repair while I continue searching for DS's nearby.

Wish me luck.

[hriehl1]

I have owned both a DS II and a DS I and find the DS I far preferable, though they sail identically.

Notably, I like the DS I's more accessable open cuddy (though I trailer so security on a mooring is not an issue... there a DS II with lockable cuddy may be a better choice). I like the DS I's transom area with additional stowage (I don't miss the extra foot of bench seating). I prefer the more sturdy-feeling centerboard-handle mechanism over the DS II's cable setup.

And the DS I's wood coamings, thwart-seats & floorboards appear "saltier" than the all-glass DS II.

I watch the Mass, NH and Maine Craigslist offerings... right now there are probably 8 to 10 Daysailers offered within 100 miles, from $400 to $2500 or so.

One more note vis-a-vis the SailStar... owning the Daysailer means immediate access to any spare part you may need. We popped half the wires in a shroud while vacationing in the Maine boonies. A 3 PM phone call to Rudy at D&R and next morning at 10 I had a new set of perfectly-sized standing rigging. We were sailing again by 10:30. That won't be so easy with a SailStar.

Plus, when you go to sell, there is a ready market for Daysailers. I sold my DS II for exactly what I paid... got 3 years use for perhaps $200 total investment in add-ons and small upgrades.