DaySailer.org Forum

I had a harrowing experience on my first trip out on my 81 DS2 this weekend. I was with 3 other sailing in the bay on a pretty calm day, no gusts and light chop.

Long story short I notices the boat wasn't responding to tiller input quickly and coming from port to starboard tack took forever nearly staling before completing the tack. Once we got on starboard tack the boat started to heel I corrected by turning into the wind but nothing happened. I went hard over and by this point the gunwale was under water and the boat was on its side before i could release the mainsheet. After we righted and bailed, water was pouring in from the CB cable hole, the plastic fitting was pushed up the cable and there was 1.5" stream of water rushing into the boat. I was able to plug with a shirt and bag while everyone else bailed. the cockpit was nearly empty when the transom went below the water. I sent the 2 girls to the bow for balance and continued to bail like mad. I came to the realization that we were sinking and my bilge must be flooded which is why we are sitting so low in the water.....

long post short Murphy and his law also joined the crew... submersible VHF yeah right that stopped working right after the knockdown. Flares.. they were in the other bucket I used to bail now they are wet. Finally we get a local friend via cell and towed back to the marina.

My question is, where do I even begin to start to look for this leak? I'ts not a trivial amount of water. My assumption is that my bilge was partially flooded before I tacked and the weight of the water and it finding the lowest point is what put us over. I'm guessing that its the CB somewhere... would a shot set of washers allow that much water in? Faulty bailer? I'm at a total loss right now and am bringing the boat back to the marina I purchased it from. They said they are going to pressure test the hull and seem to be supportive in the issue but lets see what really happens.

The good news is that everyone made it back ok, the only loss on the day were our lunches, and some of my ASA books that didn't find their way into the dry bags.

Thoughts?

That's a lot of water to get in the boat. I capsized back in March, but the boat sat high on it's side until I was able to swim it close to shore where I was able to right it. I did get water into the inner hull, but that came thru one of the inspection ports from water in the cockpit after righting. A couple weeks after my capsize I decided to check my flotation (to see if it was waterlogged) and opened the inspection ports only to find out that the previous owner had removed all my flotation. Flotation has since been replaced.

Was your boat moored or did you launch it from a trailer before going out? If moored, did you have any heavy rain prior to going out, it may be like mine coming in thru the inspection port. As my boat is stored on the trailer, I have found that I get water in it from heavy rains while on the trailer. If you launched it from a trailer, did you put in all the drain plugs. I've forgotten to put put plugs in a couple times, water will come in those fast. Just some thoughts.

John

I launched from the trailer, I picked up the boat on tuesday and opened up the inspection ports and removed the plug for 4 days before I launched. There was minor amounts of rainwater in the bilge. I purchased the boat out of water from a marina. When i launched I made sure all the plugs were in. I did see that the previous owner ( i think) installed 2 1" holes at the bottom of the cuddy that drain water to the cockpit, and with the inspection ports open, i did see water dripping in the bilge but that's not what put me over.

My CB is really sticky, Im still trying to find the CB nut and bolt. I'm guessing that's the culprit. I'f the pivot is sticky, I'd assume the gaskets are shot or something isn't aligned right.

My CB is really sticky, Im still trying to find the CB nut and bolt.

You may not have a pivot bolt. My 1984 DS2 has a short plastic (nylon?) dowel that the CB pivots on. The 'dowel' is held in place by a wedge on each inside of the lower CB trunk, and the wedges are supported by plates screwed into hull. (see center board plates at DR Marine). No hole through the CB trunk to require gaskets or be a potential leak.

Just pulled my CB this afternoon and it was very dirty. The upper edge showed wear marks in the crud from the rope. Don't know if the rope was jamming and making it hard to move or if it was all due to the frayed rope.

Cal

Check out this post it covers what you just experienced.

http://www.bobhunkins.com/mt-archives/DS2CBTLK_100.pdf

I'm glad everyone made it off save. Having put my DSI over alone, i can't say enough about replacing the flotation. In my situation, after it went over, i was able to swim around and stand on the centerboard. Kept the boat from turtling.

Does anyone know why the center board raising mechanism was changed on the DSII?

Cal, Thanks for the heads up. I didn't know that there was the wedge config as well. Looking at the bottom of the boat there are 2 stainless plates w/ 2 screws each and metal squares on each side. I assume these are the wedges.

so If things are sealed tight there maybe I'll focus on the baler or deck hull joint?

The centerboard setup on my 1980 DSII is the same as Cal's - two wedges, supported from below by metal plates, which are secured to the hull by two bolts each. As Cal said about his boat, there isn't any through-bolt to leak.

The previous owner gooped Bondo onto the heads of the screws that hold the plates in the hull, maybe because he thought water was getting into the bilge past the screw threads. I've found water in the bilge a couple of times when I wasn't sure how it got there. The best explanation I could come up with was that water had splashed over the transom on launching, then seeped down through the inspection ports.

The closest thing I've experienced to your adventure was in a sit-on-top ocean kayak. It's similar in concept to the DSII - a hull molding and a cockpit molding joined together with a big air space between them. These boats are rock stable when the air space is dry. We've taken big swells beam-on and just ridden calmly over them. But the one time I sat in one that had water in the air space (in a swimming pool, where someone getting a lesson had forgotten to put in the drain plug), it was uncontrollable. The slightest movement to either side caused a capsize.

So, I guess the point of all that verbiage is that water in the bilge, whatever its source, will probably make a DSII extremely unstable.

My DS2 is a 76 model and has a CB bolt. You have to reach forward thru the inspection ports to find it, and the first time I looked for the bolt I had trouble locating it. I've not noticed 2 steel plates on my CB trunk. One way to find the bolt and check it's condition is to get a camera down thru the inspection port and take pictures.

I filled my void area with as much flotation foam (pool noodles) as I could get in there. I wanted to make sure that if I had a leak there would be less area that could fill with water (foam would reduce the available space to flood).

John

Water filling the voids has two effects: lowers the boat, but also has the so called free-surface effect. That is, water that's allowed to slosh about is more destabilizing than water that's forced to move with the boat.

The pool noodles would appear to help with both. They would not only reduce the amount of water, but also act as baffles to keep whatever water got in from sloshing around.

For those DS2s with wedges supporting the pivot, another way to take on water is through wire cable hole in the front of the CB trunk. Rodger has written about threading a fitting there to reduce the opening.

For your peace of mind, it is probably worth laying your boat on its side to inspect the CB opening and hull. Not hard to do but another pair of hands helps. My plates were also partially covered which makes it easy to mess up the phillips screw heads -an impact driver helped here.

Let us know when you find how all that water got in.

Cal

Another source for DSII leaks I've found is the hull/deck joint. Although that would show up when the boat is pulled out. The water comes squirting out the cracks. Also check the seals on the cockpit sole inspection ports. Those are the same ports that you use to check the CB pivot. Which part has volumes written about it on this forum.

Well the boat is back at the marina, they were as stumped as I was about the water intrusion. They are working on it, Ill let you know what they say. I also plan on calling D&R tomorrow to pick their brain.

I would check for any hairline cracks in the hull that separate as you put weight into the boat. Also look for any thru hulls that a prior owner may have installed. Make sure that the bow eye is caulked and above the waterline. I have seen some installed to low on the leading edge of the hull. Something else to look for would be an opening caused from the removal of sensor such as a knot meter impeller. Brad

Latest update.

The marina filled up the bilge today and notice that the self bailer well ( does it have a real name) was filling from below. There is a fine crack that looks like nothing more than a crack in the gelcoat that was allowing water to pass. So as I was sailing the well remained full with a constant 2" of water while the bile was filling.


Let's see if this fixes it.

Here are the centerboard plates (with scary amount of Bondo)

one of the wedges that hold the centerboard in

and the screws protruding up into the bilge (viewed through one of the inspection ports). The bulge between the screws is the pocket that holds the wedge.