Centerboard uphaul line location

[TIM WEBB]

No prob!

Never really thought about it before, but isn't it interesting that there's *just* enough room/travel between the trunk and mast step for the uphaul?

Things that make you go hmmmm ...

[hectoretc]

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Capt Dave, I don't know if you are tracking this forum discssion since your name has been involked a couple times, but if so, I'd like to ask how you worked out your up/down-haul CB line locations on your boat.
I understand what you did, but how did you figure out where to drill or cut holes for the cable paths through the CB housing? Did you have any drawings or designs that you worked up, or did you do pretty much what I do, start cutting assuming that you'll figure out what you need to know before you get to it? And lastly, do you have any closer up (or better yet - in progress) pictures?
If I'm going to have to dry launch and careen my boat yet again to solve my CB uphaul question, I'd just as soon do what you did. I'm likely to leave my downhaul near the sheet block, but I'd really like to get the uphaul out of the cuddy and you seem to have mastered that challenge.
Thanks - Scott

[GreenLake]

Capt Dave was last seen on these pages in 2009. His profile may have an e-mail, if so, that might be a way to reach him.

[hectoretc]

Capt Dave was last seen on these pages in 2009. His profile may have an e-mail, if so, that might be a way to reach him.

Thanks GL,
Yes, I noticed the same when his name came up a week or two ago, so I sent him a PM (Private message?) and he responded very quickly. I posted here in case he might be passively online monitoring and would respond in the forum. I'll give it a couple days and if no response is forthcoming, I'll PM him again and I can always post the response by proxy.

[hectoretc]

Just took a look, and I'm getting right at about 14-1/4". Measured it on the trailer: since I know where the swedge is when the board is down (just forward of the donut where the cable exits the trunk), I just measured from there to where the swedge is with the board all the way up (on the trailer).

This will probably require a new longer wire rope for the centerboard-up, which means freeing the cable ends from there stupid hiding place and creating a better up/down system (i.e. one where the wire doesn't get caught on the side of the centerboard, a problem for which there doesn't exist enough salty language.)

Jay - I finally figured out (slow but sure...) what you were talking about when you commented that the up haul line would probably need to be lengthened. Trying to use the existing line turned back on a CB housing mounted block results in two things, first - because the block is in the way, the wire loop and crimped "sleeve" (don't know what it's called on a boat) cannot get back to the full down position because it hits the block and is stopped short about 2-3 inches depending on where the block is mounted. Second, with some 14" of necessary travel (as documented by Tim [thanks]) when pulling the up haul cable to raise the board, the looped end of the cable will need to pass through the cuddy bulkhead with the stock up haul cable.
I really didn't want to dry launch and careen my boat again this spring to replace the cable, so I looked at doing what Capt Dave had done, moving the up haul exit to the top of the CB housing, just outside the cuddy bulkhead. I through I could cut the hole in the housing, and using a hook or other proper tool "hook" the up haul cable as it passes under the hole to pull it out, and route it through another surface mount block as with teh down haul line further back on the CB housing. That would probably have worked, except I know from my CB extraction last summer (cracked centerboard experience) that both the up and downhaul lines on my CB are connected together at essentially the dead top of the centerboard. Judging by where the CB pivot bolt is located in the bilge, slightly inside the cuddy wall, I'm nearly certain I would not be able to get enough angle on the up haul line to fully raise the board.
Therefore... I'm trying an interim step. I'm fabricating a 1:1 1.5" block out of electrical and plumbing parts (very similar to the spindles used on PVC jib furlers). I will mount it directly in front of the up haul line hole and wrap the up haul cable around the 1 1/2" spool. I'll then run another line, also around the spool out through the bulkhead fairlead. When I lower the CB, the up haul line will wind off the spool, and wind up the "rope" draw line. To pull up the CB, I pull on my rope up haul line which turns the spindle winding in the up haul cable... and it works... maybe...

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Here's are some photos of the prototype I'm working on.
The metal piece is a 2x10 joist hanger but needs to be wider. If I get a double joist hanger it will be 3" wide which should be perfect... more to come...

[jdoorly]

Hi Scott, interesting thinking on the push/pull system. Hope it works. I'm also thinking about centerboard control and haven't yet decided which way to go. I made a drawing of the CB showing both up and down positions as well as the positions of existing control lines. It's been handy for me to look at so I took a pic of it for you too. Unfortunately, I'm not able to get a good clear pic, but here's what I got...
[thumb=1161]
Whats important in designing control line paths and connections is that since you are moving the CB 90 degrees you need to move your connection point(s) 90 degrees. Also you don't want the connection to occur at a choke point between the CB and trunk and that the head of the CB is not circular and the pivot is offset so the up and down profiles of the CB are different.

Are you planning a hand crank for your spool? Normally a system like you describe has an idler pulley somewhere to keep it tight enough. I would think you will have to sink a block down into the trunk so the up cable doesn't eat into the top of the trunk (this is happening in mine).

BTW my uphaul connection to the CB is the same a CaptDave's, but my downhaul is only 1.5" away whereas his is completely on the opposite side of the CB (and when the CB is up it looks to be exposed (in the slot) to the bottom (rocks and sand).

[hectoretc]

Are you planning a hand crank for your spool? Normally a system like you describe has an idler pulley somewhere to keep it tight enough. I would think you will have to sink a block down into the trunk so the up cable doesn't eat into the top of the trunk (this is happening in mine).

BTW my uphaul connection to the CB is the same a CaptDave's, but my downhaul is only 1.5" away whereas his is completely on the opposite side of the CB (and when the CB is up it looks to be exposed (in the slot) to the bottom (rocks and sand).

Thanks for the drawing Jay, I was really kicking myself for not taking a picture (if you can believe it) when I had the CB out for repairs. This helps a great deal as I had a lot going on and my memory isn't clear from that time.

I'm not sure but I think Capt Dave moved his uphaul line, maybe both of them. He hasn't replied to my posting to him here, so I'll send him a PM asking some questions (he responded to my previous PM) and will post whatever additional information I get.
I re-read my posting and realized not only did I have a great number of typos, but also I missed a lot of points I'd intended to make. I was in a hurry to get out the door so was typing fast and furious. (speed kills...) I've gone back and corrected some and rephrased other places to add some additional clarity.

If I was going to go with the uphaul through the top of the CB housing I would definitely use a through the surface block. For my drum uphaul idea, I guess I hadn't thought of a tensioner, but can see that if allowed to go slack, the steel cable would want to unspool because it's fairly rigid, but when wound on the spool, the line out to the cuddy will be cleated off (through a 3:1 block) so that will cover the loaded tension. When the CB is down, the rope line will be wound around the spool (like on an unfurled jib) and that can be cleated with a slight tension too. So I should think it would work. Of course never actually trying this in any form, I really don't have a frame of reference to draw against.

I'll likely get the beta version built and installed this weekend. I won't be able to lower the centerboard to try it, but at least I can get a feel for it, and a couple more practical photos.

[hectoretc]

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Had a chance to try my idea this weekend and realized two things.
1- I think it's probably going to work.
2- I realized all I am doing is lengthening the existing cable and adding a buffer piece to deal with the seam/joint.

The left picture shows the metal frame which is a double 2 x 10 joist hanger (actual width 3" for those who don't do dimensioned lumber work) which is perfect for the roller piece and centers nicely on the CB housing.
There is a 1/2 hole drilled and bolt inserted. (it was about 14 degrees this morning in the pole barn, hence the gloves)

Right picture is with the device simply set in place, the CB up-haul cable wrapped around the cylinder and some extra 3/32" cable wound around and out the cuddy bulkhead.

After taking this picture I realized I should flip the whole assembly over so the CB Uphaul comes into the bottom of the roller and the cable out to the cockpit comes off the top (duh). Also I guess that means I won't have to move the cuddy bulkhead fairlead over to avoid the two cables chaffing. I guess I might anyway though because it will be easier to deal with the cable blocks in the cockpit on the side of the CB housing than on the top.

A question for anyone. The CB up/down haul cables are 1/8". I didn't think about it until I set up the 3/32" cable, but is there a need for that much strength in the up/down cables? In other words, do I need to maintain 1/8" cable out to the cockpit or will 3/32" be sufficient. (because I have some...)
Thanks - Scott

[jdoorly]

The 3/32 is just fine. The 3/32 is just not as available as 1/8 wire. I wouldn't use non-stainless wire though. I thought I bought stainless wire for my CB uphaul last spring, however, it wasn't. The wire became totally dissintegrated and broke this fall due to salt water. I don't know how long regular wire would last you up in the great white north but it's sure a pain to replace!

BTW I'm looking for a way to attach/detach the up/down hauls to the CB and also thinking of not using wire. I've had good luck with replacing my forestay wire with dyneema line. It's easy to splice and to resplice mistakes compared to having wire professionally swaged, or hoping your own swages will hold.

[GreenLake]

This appears to be an interesting piece of engineering. I know you are not sailing on salt water (yet), but I would give some serious thoughts to corrosion prevention. The basic galvanization is a good start, but the moment you drill or have an axle run in a hole, you don't have protection.

[hectoretc]

Thanks GL,

Minnesota is a fair distance from salt water, unless of course the Mississippi breaks and starts flowing the other direction (would not be surprised given the weird weather these past years).

Good point though, I guess the whole thing could be made from plastic and aluminum once it's vetted, just in case if anyone else were to decide this is something they'd need to have on their ocean-going Daysailers.

That would apply also to the galvanized steel mast step base I found a Home Depot.

Thanks!

[GreenLake]

Given that you are not near saltwater, an extra coat of paint might help. As would nylon bushings for axles / pins, etc. Just starting thoughts.

[hectoretc]

Greetings all

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The photos above show my temporary installation for the CB uphaul cable extender/redirector. I've just used a scrap piece of wood as a spacer and will finish and replace that piece once everything else is locked down.

I decided to shift the roller device to the right about an half inch to allow a more natural separation between the two cable paths, making it so they don't line up with each other (top over bottom) avoiding chaffing or potential over-wrapping each other.

The cuddy bulkhead with the previous CB uphaul line is shown on the right. Because of the new offset in my roller, and to simplify some other work being done I intend to move the bulkhead hole & fairlead starboard about down about 2-3 inches. It will then exit into the cockpit on the side of the CB housing rather than the top, and make my block and cable system easier to work as well. The cuddy bulkhead is much thicker at that point and so the current fairlead is too shallow for that spot.

Can I use a steel pipe nipple for a thru-bulkhead fairlead on SS cable? I know Roger Conrad suggested using one to address the leaking CB housing up haul problem so I can't think of a reason not to use one here, but wanted to run it by the masses in case I'm missing something in the larger view.

Thanks - Scott

[TIM WEBB]

Isn't that the downhaul you're talking about moving? Doesn't your downhaul exit on the top of the CB trunk? If so, how will you route the DH line from the new lower and offset fairlead to the top of the trunk, so it's still pulling straight forward? Just wonderin' ... ?

[hectoretc]

Isn't that the downhaul you're talking about moving? Doesn't your downhaul exit on the top of the CB trunk? If so, how will you route the DH line from the new lower and offset fairlead to the top of the trunk, so it's still pulling straight forward? Just wonderin' ... ?

[thumb=1207]

Hi Tim - This is a fairly dreadful picture of the top of my centerboard housing on the day I brought my DSII home. The uphaul line comes out of the upper bow edge of the CB housing in the cuddy, originally was fed to a 2:1 block at the base of the mast and then sent out of the cuddy into the cockpit via the fairlead in the upper left corner of this picture. The downhaul line comes out the top of the CB housing just behind the jib sheet cam-cleats (such as they are), as can be seen in the lower right corner of this picture.
With this configuration, the stock uphaul line is higher on the CB housing than it is on daysailers with both the up and downhaul lines exiting the CB housing inside the cuddy. (see the first picture in this thread which is from Roger's book for a reference to that setup).

My desire was to get all of the centerboard lines out of the cuddy, but moving the uphaul line out to the cockpit would have required pulling the centerboard and relocating the attachment points. I've already had the CB out this past summer so I'm not ready to do that again, ergo this modification to accomplish much the same thing. (at least that's the plan)

Thanks - Scott