DSI vs DSII

[whitejw1967]

Friends,
I am set on buying an O'Day Daysailer and am open to the DS I or the DS II though I have been leaning toward the II. A local insists that the DSI is a far better boat (though I'm not sure why). Can you advise on the pros and cons of each (as objectively as possible)? He says that the DS II had a short production run (and for good reason).

John

[GreenLake]

As a DS1 owner, I'll be happy to give you objective input

Actually, all I know about the DSII is from reading. In all that reading I"ve not come across anything that makes me regret having purchased a DS1 before I found out about the DSII.

I don't race, so this impression has nothing to do with perceived competitiveness.

In all seriousness, you can learn a lot about a boat by reading about the issues that its owners are struggling with. So read the older posts on the DS1 and DSII forums and make your own comparison.

[whitejw1967]

Good point and thanks. I have done a lot of reading on O'Days and felt very good about either a DS I or II. A DS I owner--who does a lot of racing--was quite critical of the likelihood that I'd get the DS II that I've had my eye on.

I don't want to race; I just want to become competent sailing, have some fun, enjoy a new hobby, have something that I can trailer with a relatively small vehicle, and have a boat with enough room and stability to take my wife and/or a friend out with me.

I'll keep reading. I am also very appreciative that there are so many Daysailer lovers out there willing to help with advice and experience!

John

[GreenLake]

For "just sailing" what you care about is whether you can get a boat in a condition that's good relative to the price you are asked to pay.

For the DSII, you can purchase Roger's book, which is a resource that doesn't exist in that form for the DS1. On the other hand, for either model, you'll get good support and advice from people in this forum.

If you have an actual choice of boats, then base it on your budget and the state of the boat, and whether it has a deck-stepped mast (the latter is easier to step, but sacrifices some performance - probably because it bends differently). (Mine is keel-stepped, and I ended up building a simple contraption to make mast-raising easier, so even that is not a make-or-break difference, in my view).

You're probably aware of the danger of "analysis-paralysis". Pick whatever gets you on the water soonest! Good luck!

[algonquin]

Hull designs are pretty similar as are the general specifications. The DS1 has an open cuddy entrance and the floor of the hull is the actual floor surface where as the II and III have a cuddy with an entrance hatch/door and the floors are double thickness and have a drain in the event you take on water. My DS1 does not have the ability to drain water while the boat is in the water. As far as the open cuddy of my DS1, I prefer it over the small entrance doors of the II and III. The hatches of the II and III do allow you to secure gear when the boat is not in use and also when the weather is bad. Even with that I like the open cuddy of the DS1.

These boats, although similar, were manufactured by various builders over the years and you can still get a brand new DS from Cape Cod Shipbuilding. There are many variations of on board sail handling equipment over the years due to the many different DS builders. My DS1 is a 1961 and has molded seats but some have wooden seats. Mine still has the factory wire horse traveller but many owners have updated that.

Somewhere on this site I thought I read that the DS1 was preferred for racing although many race the DSIIs. The DSIII is not sanctioned for racing as far as I could tell. I believe that the DSII is more refined than the DS1.

Something to keep in mind when comparing these boats is that many have been modified by their owners with updated sail handling systems.

Look through the photo sections and you will find pictures of members various types of DS boats. Brad

[seandwyer]

I Know there is more to the difference between the two than things like the cuddy being open or closed and the bilge area on the DSII VS. none on the DSI - -but I don't know what. I have heard that the DSI is quicker and points better. Someone told me it had something to do with balance and weight distribution - i.e. the DSI doesn't have the inner hull or the extra fiberglass around the cuddy, but needs to weigh the same in order to qualify for racing, so some other accommodate was made so that the weight is comparable - but I don't know what. I also know that even though the DS that Cape Cod is currently making has the enclosed cuddy, they refer to it as a DSI because of hull design / shape / whatever. You might try contacting them and see what they say is the real difference. Or, you might just buy one from them - more than a used one, yes, but the one with the green hull on their site is a real beauty! However, I will agree with Algonquin about the cuddy. I have a DSI and the open nature of the cuddy lends itself to a shelter as well as a place to store gear, whereas the the enclosed cuddy on the DSII and DSIII doesn't look like a place most folks would want to curl up in for very long. One other difference that just came to mind is the center board - DSI has a pretty fool proof lever actuating design, whereas the DSII uses a series of lines and blocks to deploy and retrieve the CB. The new cape cod DS has gone back to the lever design. Although the lever design is the only design I have any experience with - let me just say, it is easy to use, and the angle of the handle quickly tells you at a glance how completely the CB is extended - no guess work.

[whitejw1967]

Thanks to everyone for your wisdom and advice. I know that there will no doubt be benefits and drawbacks to any boat I buy.

I think GreenLake says it best--second guessing can lead to doing nothing. I am going to buy the beautiful DS II I've been negotiating. It is in very good condition and at a reasonable price. I am not planning on competing; rather, I want a fun and forgiving boat on which to learn more about sailing (with a friend and solo).

I'll no doubt be asking for more advice as the weather warms up here (Florida) and I can get out on the water.


J

[K.C. Walker]

Well, I think you have pretty good advice already. I pretty much go with "what Greenlake said". My old boat had the "bathtub liner" cockpit like the DS2 and as it aged it became much more difficult to maintain and repair because so much was hidden. My DS1 is pretty much accessible to all repairs.

[ChrisB]

I have a 1980 DSII that I purchased in 1992. I have been very happy with the boat and have had only a few problems with it and none have kept me off the water for long. Can't speak for how competitive the boat is; never raced mine. I do most of my sailing solo and the boat is easy to singlehand. She is forgiving in light to moderate air. A single jiffy reef point in the mainsail gets me out in winds up to about 20. Beyond that I pretty much stay ashore and wish I had a bigger boat!

[K.C. Walker]

Another thing about the DS 1 versus DS 2 is that they have identical hulls, or at least they are specified to be the same. That is, they are the same shape and of the same construction. That also applies to the sail plan and the centerboard and rudder. That is why they can be raced as a one design.

KC

[jdubes]

One other difference that just came to mind is the center board - DSI has a pretty fool proof lever actuating design, whereas the DSII uses a series of lines and blocks to deploy and retrieve the CB. The new cape cod DS has gone back to the lever design. Although the lever design is the only design I have any experience with - let me just say, it is easy to use, and the angle of the handle quickly tells you at a glance how completely the CB is extended - no guess work.

Based on your goals related to a owning a "forgiving boat", i would push you towards a DSI. This is probably the one difference that's important. Having worked on two failed DSII cable systems, this point can't be lost. The simplicity of the lever approach is the way to go, every other point is a shade of grey.

[K.C. Walker]

I do most of my sailing solo and the boat is easy to singlehand. She is forgiving in light to moderate air. A single jiffy reef point in the mainsail gets me out in winds up to about 20. Beyond that I pretty much stay ashore and wish I had a bigger boat!

Or... a smaller one. Time to rig up the windsurfer... man!

KC