First Time Out

[seandwyer]

Well - first time out was yesterday afternoon. I took my daughters out for a while and scared them to death - but they want to go back ASAP so I guess there wasn't any permanent damage.

Before yesterday I had been in a sail boat precisely once before - and not really doing anything, so the fact that I made it back alive is good I suppose. We went to a small lake and I of course made many mistakes, but getting it off the trailer and back on again was easier than I had thought. The wind was gusting and went from nothing to 13 or better. I chose to try using the main only. I brought the jib, but was nervous about putting it up, because I was single handing the whole time. I motored out to a place away from anyone else and put up the sail. It was of course at that point that I realized that the battons had been left in the car! I decided to sail anyway, and while raising the sail found that one of the lower, larger spreaders was crooked. I attempted to straighten it (I'm short - could only touch it with my finger tips) and it of course didn't straighten, but proved to be cracked in half and fell - sliding down the stay to the deck. I decided to still sail because the entire day would be ruined and lost and lots of disappointed kids too. I tightened the stay up a bit to take out some slack and pulled the sail up. Immediately we were being pushed around a bit. I began to sort of get the hang of it, and sailed back against the wind in the direction I wanted to go in, but was constantly getting stuck pointing into the wind. It was to say the least frustrating. Once stuck, it was really hard to get the boat out of this position. We did this - vacillating between sailing in spritely fashion to sitting still in the water looking like dopes while everyone else whooshed by effortlessly - for the next 3 hours. Finally I decided to motor back, because I wasn't ever going to get back to the dock before dark the way it was going.

I gave the tiller to my 13 year old and asked her to move it in such a way so as to keep us planted in our location as well as possible. Standing on the top of the cuddy, pulling the sail down, a wind gust came up and I was sort of occupied with keeping myself from getting wrapped up in the sail, as well as preventing it from going into the water. When I looked back around my 13 year old was lying flat on her back in the bottom of the boat, sipping root beer and humming - tiller swinging wherever the currents took it....... and us - we had drifted towards the bank substantially due to the gust. I stowed the sail under the cuddy and sprang to the motor - which didn't want to start. However, showing it who was the man - I persisted and started the motor - only to be told that motors do not care who the man is, nor who men may think themselves to be, and that no matter ones identity, broken brass pins do not spin propellers. Harrumph.

So, we were drifting towards the bank, the sail was down and the motor wasn't able to spin the propeller. I pulled the motor off the motor mount, removed the propeller and replaced the pin. During this operation a few motor boats went by and their wake finished our transgression towards the shore. We never actually hit the shore, because the mast slammed into the over hanging trees. From the cockpit, there appeared to be much writhing and entwining of loose halyards with branches and stays and the only part not involved was the mast head fly - a coy piece I assume. I was truly sickened at this point, but having an audience I had to persist. Motor reassembled and mounted I started it up and voila! we moved out, away, and finally free of the branches - no harm done!!!! A 40 year old boat - no harm done. I was amazed and thrilled!!!

We motored back to the dock - (only ran out of gas once!) and got her back on the trailer easily. I was nervous about crashing coming in - but it was cake. Once your boat has made love to a tree, anything else is easy to deal with - I think.

So, a couple hours and beers (root and otherwise) and we were ready to get back out again - this time with stays and spreaders where they should be - and battons of course. I'm excited to go again, but i truly need some sort of advise on how to get out of chains every 20 minutes - or better yet, how to stay out. I have a piece of stock to make a spreader with, left over from the other one I replaced. They must have really been under a lot of stain at one time.

[GreenLake]

If you're stuck head to wind, pull the tiller over 45 degrees and wait for the boat to start sailing backwards (you can push out the boom to make that happen sooner). With backwards motion, the rudder will turn the stern and you'll begin to catch wind from an angle that lets you sail forward again.

With only the main, you can move your centerboard up a bit, that has the effect of tilting it further back, which improves the balance - the main should then not be able to turn the boat into the wind as efficiently.

The best is to use the jib - you should be able to get your 13 year old to help with the jib sheets - the jib's a great one to help pull the bow around when making turns.

Sounds like you had a lot of fun!

[Peterw11]

Great story Sean. Glad to see you made out OK, and better yet, the kids want to go back out with you.

Your description of ending up in stays is exactly what happened to me the first time I took a DS out single handed, at the Community Sailing Club I belong to. I was using the main only, as well, and the wind conditions were the same.

I'll be damned if I could get her to come around after completing my starboard tack. She'd head into the wind and stall and eventually the wind beating against the hull started pushing me back to shore. I eventually ended up on the beach and the rescue boat had to come get me.

I asked the Sailing Director what I did wrong and his answer was the same as GreenLake's. Without the jib, the boat is unbalanced and tends to ride bow high. The gusts just make the problem worse as they drive the boat backwards.

He accompanied me back out, again without the jib, and the same thing happened to him. He also used GreenLakes technique of pushing the rudder over and letting the boat back into the tack. We raised the jib and the steering became a lot more responsive.

BTW, how did raising the mast and rigging go. Did you have any help from your crew, or was it a one man job?

I'm still in the clean up and repair stage with my 2 week, 1968 DS1, ownership. I powerwashed it Saturday and was pleasantly surprised by how solid and undamaged the hull was under all the stains and dirt it had accumulated. The rigging appears to be in fine shape, the trailer being the main area of concern.

Nothing too dramatic, but I replaced a tire, the hitch coupler, rewired the lights, and added additional tie down straps just to make me feel a bit more comfortable with towing.

Hopefully we'll be in the water this weekend.

[seandwyer]

Peterw11
Thanks for the jib tip. I have been told this as well, but I was still apprehensive about going out for my first time - full bore if you will. So, I guess I have to get over it sometime and jump in - so if I can orchestrate things this weekend I'll try again - this time with both sails full up. As for rigging - I got a little help from the girls, but mostly it was all me - but it's like that when we do the dishes or rake leaves or fold socks, so why should this be any different? My daughter put the pin in the forestay for me while I held the mast in place. The way I've been doing this is, I keep the side stays attached all the time - mast up or down - sailing or stored on the trailer. I pull the mast backwards until the step lines up, put a pin in, raise it, put another pin in and have someone in the front fasten the forestay. I'd really like to get to the point where I can do all of this alone. I bought a length of line and a pulley to fasten to the front of the trailer. my thought is, tie the forestay to the line, run the line up to the front to the trailer, throug the pulley and back to me (on the cuddy). As I raise the mast my plan is to pull on the line, bringing the forestay closer and closer to the tip of the boat. When the mast is all the way up, the forestay fastener should be very close to where it hooks on. I tie the rope off on one of the cleats by the base of the mast so as to keep tension on the rope, put the other pin the mast step, then hop down and fasten the forestay and remove the line. If anyone has a better idea - please let me know - I'd really like to get to where I don't need assistance with this.

On Sunday I did experience a bit of the going backwards due to the wind stuff. I just didn't understand what was going on. I thought it was weird that I was going the opposite way that I should have been going considering the tillers position - but it's the backwards motion that makes everything clear now. I'm embarassed to admit, I didn't realiuze I was moving backwards. Slight motion out in the middle of the lake is hard to really recognize I guess.

So....I'd like to go out again this weekend, but first I need to replace the broken spreader - and I noticed that one of the other spreader brackets is missing a rivet - so I need to figure that out. I also really should replace every stinking screw on the rigging because they are all ancient, rusted steel. They look so bad that I know, not one of them is going to turn - they're just going to break and then I'll have to drill them out. Not looking forward to it at all - hence my going out before things were perfect approach.

Good luck on your project - they do seem to be very sturdy boats no matter the age!

[seandwyer]

Peterw11
Thanks for the jib tip. I have been told this as well, but I was still apprehensive about going out for my first time - full bore if you will. So, I guess I have to get over it sometime and jump in - so if I can orchestrate things this weekend I'll try again - this time with both sails full up. As for rigging - I got a little help from the girls, but mostly it was all me - but it's like that when we do the dishes, or rake leaves or fold socks, so why should this be any different? My daughter put the pin in the forestay for me while I held the mast in place. The way I've been doing this is, I keep the side stays attached all the time - mast up or down - sailing or stored on the trailer. I pull the mast backwards until the step lines up, put a pin in, raise it, put another pin in and have someone in the front fasten the forestay. I'd really like to get to the point where I can do all of this alone. I bought a length of line and a pulley to fasten to the front of the trailer. my thought is, tie the forestay to the line, run the line up to the front to the trailer, through the pulley (fastened to the trailer) and back to me (on the cuddy). As I raise the mast, my plan is to pull on the line, bringing the forestay closer and closer to the tip of the boat. When the mast is all the way up, the forestay fastener should be very close to where it hooks on. I tie the rope off on one of the cleats by the base of the mast so as to keep tension on the stay, put the other pin the mast step, then hop down and fasten the forestay and remove the line. If anyone has a better idea - please let me know - I'd really like to get to where I don't need assistance with this.

On Sunday I did experience a bit of the going backwards due to the wind stuff. I just didn't understand what was going on. I thought it was weird that I was going the opposite way that I should have been going considering the tillers position, and kept trying to correct the direction, which probably was keeping me stuck a lot longer than necessary - but it's the backwards motion that makes everything clear now. I'm embarrassed to admit, I didn't realize I was moving backwards. Slight motion out in the middle of the lake is hard to really recognize I guess.

So....I'd like to go out again this weekend, but first I need to replace the broken spreader - and I noticed that one of the other spreader brackets is missing a rivet - so I need to figure that out. I also really should replace every stinking screw on the rigging because they are all ancient, rusted steel. They look so bad that I know, not one of them is going to turn - they're just going to break and then I'll have to drill them out. Not looking forward to it at all - hence my going out before things were perfect approach.

Good luck on your project - they do seem to be very sturdy boats no matter the age! Mine cleaned up OK - but the paint I used on the inside of the hull is just not holding up. I just put it on a few weeks ago - top quality exterior latex is what I was told would work - but it's too soft. I think the cockpit needs to be painted with something just as rugged as the hull due to the cockpits open nature, heavy traffic and exposure to water. I keep the drain plug open when she's on the trailer, but the tarp has a few holes and there are always puddles. The paint bubbles up when under water for extended periods of time (read a couple of days here). If you are planning to paint after the power wash - get something good and intended for this purpose. I think most guys can keep the water out for a few weeks at a time, but who knows what happens over the winter - then it's too late. This past March (once I became the owner) I removed the tarp to find a five gallon ice cube on the floor formed around the seats and up against the transom. The paint under the ice and water was totally screwed up and the floor and transom were a total mess. Considering this - if anyone reading this can recommend a better option for paint please share!!! I am considering stripping and doing a gel coat this fall because I hate painting!!!! Has anyone else done this? Do tell!! I know it's slippery, but it'll all be under the boards when on the water, so who cares? And the boards are another problem for the paint - anywhere that they come into contact with the floor, the paint comes right off due to movement and friction. There must be a better option. Peterw11 - what are you planning to / have painted with?

[GreenLake]

My DS came painted and the receipt that the previous owner included is dated 10 years ago and identifies the paint as "International enamel". The colors indicate that these were the paints used for deck and inside of the hull. Unfortunately I find that those descriptions don't match up with anything I can find on the web, which is a shame, because they've held up quite well until now.

"International" which seems to be identical to "interlux" nowadays makes a line of Yacht enamel paints, but not in the colors. So I'm not sure what these paints are (they also were satin, not glossy, and most of the paints they now advertise seem to require a flattening agent, which would have shown on the receipt).

There are a few areas where I've scraped off the paint by dragging something sharp and heavy, but they are localized, the worst being inside the motor well, which I use to store misc items (like rocks the younger passengers have collected on the beach).

There's some deck area at the front, where I had insufficient tarp coverage the first few years - that has weathered a section of the paint. And, as of this year, there are areas on deck where the paintis beginning to flake, so it's time to think about redoing the job.

Still holding well on the seats, though.

For the places inside the hull where the floorboards rest, they had ground through to the laminate at the contact spots. There, I've used a clear (transparent) gelcoat patch kit to add a tough layer and seal the laminate again. I didn't bother painting over those spots. (Incidentally, where the patch material covered adjacent paint, it's bonded nicely to the paint, so this looks like something one could use even to apply over paint to help protect such spots from rubbing through - it's transparent, so you simply see what's underneath).

This is how the boat's been stored.

I've not had a lot of standing water problems or ice cubes, despite the picture, but the paint in the lowest part of the hull looks no different than higher up on the inside.

So, overall, it's possible to get durable paint.

[seandwyer]

GreenLake - Funny, I have a rock box on my boat too!

I store my boat the same as you from the looks of the picture, but the tarp is shot - it was an expensive one, but with 6 - 8 years under it's belt, it sure has accumulated an impressive number of holes - mostly rub through where the spreaders come in contact. There were tennis balls at one time, but there simply isn't any point now. I'm not buying another until fall - going to be expensive.

Thanks for the tips on paint. I consider myself lucky in that the only thing that is painted is the floor - deck, seats and hull are all gel coat still and I'd like to keep it that way. I consider this to be like a basement floor. Painting it makes it look nice immediately, but looks like hell a month later and needs constant upkeep forever after. I'm going to research the interlux / international option. If I find any news I'll let you know.

[GreenLake]

On tarps: The white ones are the heaviest I've been able to find and have lasted me three seasons, I think, and unlike the silver ones (next grade below) they haven't shown signs of disintegrating into little flecks as they age. The blue ones are light duty only in my experience. All I do is strap bungees all around, I've never added padding. (Fewer bungees in the summer, when I'm more likely to use the boat).

I found that moisture will collect along the side of the hull (the space below the rubrail is apparently not well ventilated) which I could possibly avoid by I using weights instead of bungees.

A 'holy' tarp might still serve as sunshade, but I make sure that mine are waterproof going into the winter. I leave the back open for ventilation, and have rarely found observable levels of water in the boat.

On paint: My basement floors look worse than the inside of my hull But I'm tolerant of small imperfections as long as the paint layer is basically sound...

[seandwyer]

With regard to tarps - The tarp I have is really high quality canvas that the owner had made specifically for the boat by a tent and awning company. He's told me to go have another made, but now that you have made the suggestion of a white tarp I think what I might do is just buy a white one and lay it over the canvas that's on there now - the old one can act as a buffer to keep holes from rubbing through and maybe I'll get several years out of it. I agree- the blue ones are total crap.

As for moisture around rub rails - I wonder if this is why mine are so discolored? My rub rails are full of black mold spots and stains. Very unsightly. I'm interested if anyone has a method by which to remove these stains and what to do to prevent their return? Ventilation might be one thing. Any other ideas?

[GreenLake]

My rubrails were already a bit chalky when I got them, so I didn't hesitate to attack them with comet (bleach) and the green side of a scotch pad (stuff that I wouldn't use anywhere else). That took care of most of it, but then I had an eager teenager helper one day, who discovered that there were remnants of a layer of paint on them as well, and took a pressure washer to blast those off. ...

[Peterw11]

As I stated earlier, I'd hoping to get the boat into the water this coming weekend. Most likely, I'll be alone, as the kids all have other plans, and I'd like to get to learn the various procedures without having everybody standing around waiting for me to get my act together.

That said, this means I'll be rigging it alone as well.

Sean, my plan of attack is the same as yours. Keep the side stays attached and after setting the first tabernacle pin, walking the mast up into position.

From what I understand, the next move is to pin the forestay before the second tabernacle pin is installed.

It would appear to be a lot easier to set the second tabernacle pin to hold the mast in place, then walk to the bow and pin the forestay.

Is this not a good idea? Does it place too much stress on the tabernacle to support the mast without the forestay in place? It would only be a matter of seconds while the mast is standing without the forestay attached, as I could dismount the boat with it in hand and walk forward to the bow.

I also considered a line attached to the forestay, forward to a block mounted on the trailer, and then back to my position on the cuddy.
I'd much rather do all the mast location from the cockpit, dismount the boat and finish it up standing on the ground at the bow.

Given my age, and diminishing spryness (?), I'd feel more comfortable on terra firma, than on that tiny deck.

As far as addressing the stain and mold issue, I was amazed at the results after I power washed the hull the other day. All the black mold and mildew stains disappeared, from the fiberglass as well as the teak and the vinyl rub rail. With the highest pressure nozzle in place, the original (light blue) hull paint cleaned up nicely and the difference in the topside cuddy and deck fiberglass (white) was even more dramatic.

The only cleaning agent I used was Zep spray on tub and tile cleaner and some light scrubbing with a brush.

It also removed a lot of flaking paint from inside the boat, in some places right down to the fiberglass, which was fine with me as it was looking pretty shabby anyway. And the once dark, almost walnut looking coamings, came up a light, almost honey colored, original teak appearance.

A little time with a sander and teak oil, and she should be looking like new.

[GreenLake]

Your mast will not be vertical, esp. not if you have to rig it with the trailer on an incline. The force on that second pin can be substantial - whether in excess of its design load, I can't say, but there's a simple way to not have to find out:

All you need is a thin line, tied to your forestay, run through a hole at the stem fitting at the bow (but not the same hole you want to fasten the forestay to ). After you've raised the mast by pushing it up, you simply pull that line tight (there's hardly any force required, as you are holding up the mast), and then belay it (on some handy cleat - whether on the cuddy top or mast foot doesn't matter.)

Then you walk leisurely around to the front and pull the forestay a couple more inches until it reaches its hole. Finally, you undo the temporary line.

(Some people, I read, don't even fix the forward tabernacle pin, in case they forget to remove it when taking down the mast - there are boats for which the tabernacle doesn't even have a forward pin).

The forces on that line should be quite moderate, but you want to make sure that the way you fix it to the stay cannot come loose by itself, but still lets you shackle the stay to the stem fitting first.

[Peterw11]

To those newbies reading this thread, (Sean), I've finally freed up enough time to get the boat in the water. Tomorrow's the day.

I spent today making some last minute purchases, (paddle, trailer hardware) , replaced the hitch coupler on the trailer, and practiced raising the mast and rigging it for the first time. I also repaired a small rip in the main (dacron tape is awesome!) and checked out all the lines and blocks.

The mast raising went OK, (lots of spaghetti to deal with in the cockpit, no?). After attaching the sidestays, I took GreenLake's suggestion and rigged a 1/4" line from the forestay, through a hardware store block, (attached to the hole in the deck plate aft of the forestay hole with a quicklink) and back to a cleat on the cuddy.

After inserting the tabernacle pin, I hoisted the mast while pulling on the forestay line. After cleating it off, it held the mast in place while I walked to the bow and pinned the forestay (took quite a bit of pull to secure the pin).

It took me two tries to get it done, but it didn't work half badly.

Interestingly enough, after mentioning in another thread that I couldn't see any way to drain water from my hull, I also discovered that, indeed, I do have a 1/2" threaded drain hole through the hull, just aft of the centerboard trunk.

I was giving the cockpit the once over with the shop vac and hit what appeared to be a dead end hole in the cockpit floor with the nozzle. Sure enough, it goes right through the hull. Apparently, it was just clogged with accumulated junk.

In the box of fittings that came with the boat, I found two stainless bolts about 1" long. Non standard drain plugs, but they do fit.

Man, it's a good thing I found the hole before tomorrow's launch. I can just picture me walking back to the dock after parking my truck, only the find the boat on the verge of sinking!!

How funny would that be?

[Peterw11]

Well, I did get her in the water, a little later than planned due to a ton of last minute details, but sail we did.

Aside from a few small problems, it was great.

I took her to a small lake about 10 miles from home, figuring I'd avoid the much larger, and much busier, lake I live about 2 miles from. I wanted to make sure I took my time to get things set up right and not clog the ramp with my newbie stumbling and bumbling.

A friend lives on the lake I visited, so I had his son and another neighborhood kid help me with the launch and rigging. Only took about 15 minutes, with the three of us working, plus the extra set of eyes while backing down to the ramp sure didn't hurt. (my first time hauling and launching a boat, too).

It was a perfect sailing day, weather wise, sunny, 10-15 mph winds with gusts to 20, and the lake is great for sailing as well, wide open, roughly square in shape, about 3/4 mile in from side to side.

Once underway, she did everything she was supposed to do and everthing worked as expected. The centerboard (untried til today) worked fine, with no hang ups or leaks. The sails, while old and a little baggy, moved us right along, and the mid boom mainsheet setup was no problem at all.

A few little things did crop up, however. After about an hour on the water, the port jib track yanked right out of the coaming while coming about in a strong gust. I jettisoned the wayward block and track, and quickly rerouted the sheet around the outside of the sidestay and it continued to work OK for the hour or so I stayed on the water.

The track screws had looked a little shaky, so I should have expected they might cause a problem. I still have the screws, so I can just moved the track back an inch and drill new holes.

I've also decide the original design thwart mounted jib cleats have to go. They're the old style brown colored fiber cleats, the action is very stiff and they don't open up to accept the jibsheets without running a finger through them first. No good.

Plus they're mounted 90 degrees to the mast, pointing directly toward the gunwales, so the geometry is wrong. Running the jib sheet through a second, thwart mounted block and rotating the cleats to 45 degrees would seem to make more sense, especially when single handing.

Those Ronstan cleats that D&R sells look like they may do the trick.

Another good part of the whole experience was when I brought her back to my friend's dock, after two hours of continuous use, the cockpit was bone dry. Nary a drop leaked in from anywhere.

That was something I really didn't expect, seeing as the hull is 40 years old.

All in all, though, a great day.

[GreenLake]

Funny, I had a ripped out jib track on my maiden voyage as well. Except, only half the track came out, so it bent and snapped.

The wooden "carlins" that are underneath the gunwhale and into which the coamings (and jib tracks) are screwed were apparently rather indifferently glassed in place by the builder (and polyester, in any case, is not the best resin for that). The result is usually some degree of "dry rot" as a little bit of occasional moisture gets in there.

I solved the problem temporarily by using much longer screws for the replacement track (it needed new holes as well, due to different configuration).

Long term, I'm looking at the need to grind away the glass and replace the carlins. Or, I might try to give them the "FixRot" or "EndRot" treatment sold by SystemThree (see their web-site if you are curious).

There are some really bad spots that might be beyond that technique. Lukcily for me, those spots are not near actual screw holes...

Anyway, you might want to check your boat for weakness in that area.